Get Up and Play!

This month's conversation was on adapting your favorite card and board games so you can keep playing, no matter your level of vision. We covered tactile games and puzzles, games for your smartphones, and games you can even play with your smart assistant.

October 17, 2019

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Audio Transcript



Hadley

Get Up and Go! – Get Up and Play!

Presented by Elyse Heinrich and Steve Kelley

October 17, 2019

Elyse H: Welcome everybody to our month's Get Up and Go discussion group. My name's Elyse, a learning expert at Hadley. And today I'm co-hosting with Steve. Want to say hello, Steve?

Steve K: Yeah. How is everybody today? It's great to be here.

Elyse H : Thanks so much for joining and our goal here for the Get Up and Go discussion group is to provide a forum for the community to share our ideas and our resources for all things recreation, and at all levels. So you found us. Now it's time to get up and play games. Yeah. Some of you might have seen from our advertisement that this month's conversation starter that we wanted to highlight is all time favorite card and board games with a special emphasis on adapting for those with low vision or no vision. Because everyone, if they're like me, I like to play games. So adapting them for everyone can be a great opportunity to include those people who may not be able to play in the same way as they could in the past.

So I'm talking about some tactile markings, some different puzzles that you can be played interactively or even by yourself. And I know Steve has a few topics about electronic games. So I first wanted to start off and to share with the group that Mattel has teamed up with the National Federation of the Blind to make Uno game available in braille. And this is the first official Uno card deck that features braille, which they boast makes the game more accessible to more than seven million people with blindness and low vision living in the United States. And their description is that the Uno braille card features braille on the corner of each playing card that would indicate the card's color and number. Like those draw two or draw four cards or skips and also the color. They have braille readable files that are available for download or you can use your voice enabled good old Amazon A-lady or a Google Home to read the rules to make sure that everyone is following along.

One of the neat things that was in their article that we'll post in our show notes, that braille is a critical tool for literacy and facilitates full participation of the blind in all aspects of society. They're excited to introduce the braille Uno cards and putting their brand ... Or excuse me, the brand is putting braille in places where you may not usually experience it. And I'm happy to see that it's also available on some big box stores. And this one in particular is at Target for about $10, but we'll also put a link on our website where you could find them online as well.

Steve K: Can I jump in here for a moment Elyse?

Elyse H: Yes.

Steve K: I could not resist. When I heard that there was actually a tutorial on the smart speakers, of course I had to go and try that out. And I noticed that I could not get anything to work on the Google assistant and I tried all kinds of things. Open this, open that, try this skill, whatever. But on the Amazon Echo when I use the command, "Open Uno braille," it immediately opened to a tutorial. I mean I don't have that deck of cards, but I just love the fact that they included that. So you can go pick up your deck of Uno braille cards at target, go home and turn on the Amazon Echo and you've got an interactive tutorial that will just take you right on through the whole game instructions. I just thought that was so cool.

Elyse H: That's really handy. Do you know about how long the recording was?

Steve K: Oh my gosh. I don't know. I did it just for a couple of minutes, but I have a feeling it would have gone on and on. It just made it so convenient and it made me wonder why more companies don't do something like that. It was just really handy. And as you mentioned, if you go to, I think it's unobraille.com, you can actually download a braille file so that you would have the user guide in braille on your braille display. So that, too, is pretty cool.

Elyse H: It's really wonderful. They're making it so much more readily accessible.

Steve K: Oh yeah.

Elyse H: Yes. And I know you are going to talk about doing your own braille on cards. Do you want to jump in there?

Steve K: Yeah. For many years I was a vision rehab therapist out in the community. And a lot of times, that was one of the things that folks wanted to do, was to get back to playing cards. So you've got some large print playing cards and I'll just put in a quick plug here. I loved a deck of cards that was manufactured locally in Maine called Lou's Cards. L-O-U-S-C-A-R-D-S.com. And they were designed by someone here in Maine and they just had wonderful colors, really large print on them. So I would take that deck of cards ... You know a lot of folks who've recently lost vision, they're not braille readers. But in no time at all you can bring somebody up to speed pretty quickly and actually get them a little bit more interested in braille by putting the braille right on the cards. So I would use a slate and stylus, you can also get a jumbo brailler or a jumbo slate and stylus, and just put the braille on the cards, on the diagonal corners and that made it a lot easier. You can also of course buy the cards already brailled, but I found that sometimes it was a little bit easier for people to feel the braille right on the cards that was done with a slate and stylus. And didn't I see that you had a ... Did you have a bunch of links, Elyse, for places where people could buy a deck of cards that was already brailled?

Elyse H: Yes, for sure. One of them was braillebookstore.com. They had a lot of card games. Not only just a deck of cards, a Pinochle deck, Bingo cards, and also large print. So we'll add those in for sure. If anybody want to jump in at any point feel free. Share your favorite game and if you've adapted it or looking for a new game to play that you'd like to ask around. Oh I see a hand is up. Let's see, I'll un-mute John. Go ahead.

John: Yeah. I just wanted to say that for many years ... I don't know if they are still doing this. MaxiAids, which is a company ... I believe it's out in New York and Steve can verify this having been a vision rehab therapist for as many years as he was. For years has been putting together different types of playing cards. Now I don't know if they ever did Uno cards, but if they did, this new Target option would eliminate that need for ordering through their catalog for playing cards. I'm hoping that for standard playing cards that another company might join in and create, for standard playing cards, a braille set that would be readily available as these new Uno cards are for Target. I think they got the idea from MaxiAids. They must have, Mattel did. Because MaxiAids has been doing this for years.

Elyse H: That's a great resource. I will definitely check into it. I know MaxiAids has a lot of products for those with low vision or those with no vision that are adapted. That's a great place to check. Thanks, John.

Steve K: Yeah, thanks, John. You know one of the things too I think that's great about it being in Target ... And correct me if anybody knows differently. But I think that there's some braille on the packaging as well. So I think what's really cool is you've actually got a product in a large box store like Target that now has some braille right on the packaging. And you know, to be honest with you, I frankly think it's a very smart thing that Mattel is doing because I think in their press release they talked about seven million people or I don't know how many million people who are going to be able to use braille and may not have been playing the game before. So they're really appealing to a section of the population that might not have had access to this before unless they had somebody with a slate and stylus that could fix up the cards for them.

Elyse H: Exactly. And they did say seven million people with blindness or low vision living just in the United States.

Steve K: Yeah. At 10 bucks a deck, you do the math, it's smart marketing is really what it is.

Elyse H: For sure. We have a couple more hands up here. This is great. Let's see. I'll go ahead and un-mute Cindy.

Cindy: Yeah. Speaking of Uno, this isn't braille, but they're giant Uno cards. We were at a bar and they had this deck of Uno cards that were as large as a piece of paper. And I could see the number and whatever writing was on the cards, but I couldn't make out the colors. And there wasn't any indication of the colors. And we asked the people who owned the bar if we could come in with a Sharpie and put the first letter of each color on each card and I was there with a big group of friends and we just divided up the cards and I had several Sharpies in my purse and they just wrote the letter initial on each card and we were able to play. And so after I played those there, I thought it would be a lot of fun to get a deck. And we looked for them and they were expensive. They were almost $30 for the deck of cards.

Steve K: Oh my.

Cindy: So I haven't purchased it yet, but I thought that... I wanted to share about those giant Uno cards for people who are low vision. But the other thing that this bar has is giant Jenga and it's a lot of fun. Do you know about Jenga?

Elyse H: I've seen that myself. Yep. Like big two by four pieces of wood that are cut and sanded down so that they weren't rough edges.

Cindy: Right.

Elyse H: Yeah. So you use these giant pieces of wood to stack three across, three wide, three up, three down.

Cindy: So those giant games are kind of the thing I've noticed that it was a lot of fun and I felt included and I don't think I would have just written with a Sharpie on the deck of cards if I had realized how expensive they were. But they were totally fine with us doing it and modifying them, so we went for it.

Steve K: Cindy, do you mind if I ask, do you remember the name of the company that makes those, just so we would have it?

Cindy: Oh the Uno cards?

Steve K: Yeah, those giant ones that you were talking about.

Cindy: I don't know. My husband looked for them on Amazon and I don't know how he searched, but they were available on Amazon.

Steve K: Okay so he found them on Amazon?

Cindy: Yeah. Uh-huh.

Steve K: Okay great.

Cindy: They were 20 something dollars for the deck though.

Elyse H: I've seen those, Cindy, and I've played a game over the summer with a youth group and somebody had brought these gigantic cards and I just couldn't stop laughing. It was a handful. Literally a handful in your hand.

Cindy: They are. And they make them thick too and so it is really funny for everybody to try to hold their ... And then once you end up with a bunch of cards in your hand it's really tricky.

Elyse H: So I got to ask, how did you end up shuffling these, because we were having a heck of a time.

Cindy: It took a couple of people working together.

Elyse H: Yes.

Steve K: Oh my gosh, that's great.

Elyse H: We put ours on the floor and just pushed them around.

Steve K: I was going to say most of the large print decks of cards I've seen are fairly standard size cards. I did run across a deck and, unfortunately, I don't remember the name of the company. They were a little bit larger, probably maybe two inches larger than the standard deck. And they were really helpful for someone who would use large print cards because like you said, just a little bit easier to read. So they're out there and I suspect that those were a little bit more expensive and probably way easier to shuffle.

Elyse H: I think so. I think so. They're still easily handheld. Thanks for sharing, Cindy. We'll come back around. The next person has their hand raised. Their phone number starts 517. Can you tell us your name please?

Carol: Hi, this is Carol.

Elyse H: Hi Carol.

Steve K: Hi Carol.

Carol: I have been playing Uno with braille cards with my grandsons for years. I got it somewhere like Blind Mice Mart or something. So they must have been after-market brailled. I did not braille them myself. But I think that's a great way for adults that are learning grade one braille to practice it. And my favorite game to play ... I live in a 55 and over community in Florida and dominoes is really popular here, Mexican train. I brailled my own dominoes so that I can play with the group. I brailled the back of the domino and it's working out great.

Elyse H: Sure. Did you just put the number of dots, just like a number sign and then the number?

Carol: Yeah. The dominoes that they use don't have dots on them.

Elyse H: Oh.

Carol: They have actual numbers on them now. And instead of just going up to six, what we play with goes up to 12 on each end of the domino.

Elyse H: Oh wow.

Carol: What I brailled is ... I had a problem because ... I don't know if you play dominoes. But the numbers are on either end. And the braille would be upside down if you only put one piece of braille on it. And if you wanted the opposite end of the domino, you turn the domino over then your braille's upside down.

Elyse H: Sure.

Carol: So I figured out what the braille code would be if it was upside down.

Elyse H: Oh my gosh.

Carol: It's was quite challenging.

Elyse H: Oh wow.

Steve K: That must have taken some practice.

Carol: It did. It took a lot of work. But I did it on a piece of laminate because Dymo tape, two strips of Dymo tape was too wide to fit on the back of the domino. So I put it on laminate sheets and cut them to size. And it's working out great. I play it every week.

Steve K: That is really ingenious. Did you use just a slate and stylus with the laminate?

Carol: I used a braille writer.

Steve K: Okay. Okay that is terrific. And has that held up pretty well with the dominoes? Is it still fairly crisp?

Carol: Yes, it is.

Steve K: Oh that's awesome.

Carol: You have to be careful. We store the dominoes in a box and there's more than one set of dominoes. The sighted group, they put their hub in with the box. With my braille ones, I have to not put the hub in because it smashes it. So if it's not smashed-

Elyse H: They take a little extra care, mm-hmm (affirmative).

Carol: Yeah, basically. Yep. But it's holding out well.

Elyse H: Well that's very neat.

Carol: I play Euchre. I play lots of card games. Euchre and Bingo and whatever.

Elyse H: Made your own materials? Like you adapted the dominoes or were you able to find a set for Bingo, a different Bingo card?

Carol: Yep. Bingo cards are available. I've had some problems with Bingo. We were on a cruise and I took my braille cards with me. And the cruise line would not let me play because theirs were computerized and they had to have this number read off of their sheets that they hand out for their computer to tell whether or not it was a winner. And since mine don't have ... They refused to let me play.

Steve K: That's kind of disturbing.

Carol: Yeah it was. We were pretty unhappy with that. Because I mean you can look at a card and tell which is the winner or not, you don't need the computer to tell you. But it's rare to find that. Most places are pretty accommodating.

Steve K: Have you done that technique where you put the braille on the dominoes, have you tried that technique with any other games like any board games?

Carol: No I haven't.

Steve K: Okay. Well that certainly was ingenious.

Carol: Yeah. It was a challenge, but I really wanted to play.

Elyse H: Yeah. Has anybody ever used a magnifier or a application on your phone that would identify cards when they're playing? Another idea we had was Sudoku puzzles or word searches. They have some books that are available in large print and so some of the smaller puzzles may be too small to see even with a magnifier. But if a large print Sudoku puzzle would float your boat with the number game. I see another hand up, so we'll go over to John. Go ahead.

John: The other thing I probably should have said. We talk a lot about card games and board games, but there are other puzzles too and I'm going to date myself when I tell you, when I was a kid, I had a braille Rubik's cube. Well actually it was tactile Rubik's cube. All the different letters had different lines. I think some of them had dots. If I remember right the white ones had three raised lines like-

Elyse H: Like different textures for each color?

John: Correct.

Elyse H: Neat.

John: I don't know if anybody ever had that. I'd be interested to know.

Steve K: John, was that something that was specifically marketed to folks who were blind or visually impaired or was that just another type of a Rubik's cube where you were just matching up the different tactile marks on it? Because I could see that being totally appropriate for anybody.

John: I think this one was designed specifically for me. I used to believe that. But then I heard that there were others who had the same thing, some years later. So I'm beginning to wonder if that wasn't something that was specifically marketed. But there was tape with these various... all the sides and all the cube ... I'm talking to a younger audience that I'm sure wouldn't know even what a Rubik's cube is. All of the little cube things that you turn had dots on them. You know, they were cube stickers.

Elyse H: Yeah. And then the object was to line up each of the same texture all on one side.

John: Right.

Elyse H: I could never do it as a kid with the colors. I don't know how I would do with the textures, but it's quite the-

John: It's an interesting challenge if you've got nothing to do.

Elyse H: Maybe this was the original fidget spinner. You can have a Rubik's cube toy.

Steve K: I could see something like that taking hours and hours. It would be quite the challenge. You know what's interesting, is if you use Carol's technique, I wonder if you could just take a Rubik's cube off the shelf and put braille on it for the different colors or however you wanted to mark it. You would have to have a little time on your hands to do that because didn't each one of those cubes spin all the way around? Wasn't there like four sides to each one of those cubes?

Elyse H: Yeah. They spin in rows and columns.

Steve K: Right, exactly.

Elyse H: You'd have to mark each one.

Steve K: There'd be a lot of braillings for that.

Elyse H: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Or there'll be a way to adapt it. Carol, you have your hand up. Want to add in?

Carol: Someone just recently told me that they bought a tactile Rubik's cube from Amazon for about $12.

Steve K: Wow.

Elyse H: Oh neat. So they're still around, John.

Steve K: Yeah I was just going to say, back in style John.

Carol: That's all, thank you.

Elyse H: Thanks.

Steve K: Thanks Carol. You know, I'm just kind of curious too with John's mention of the Rubik's cube. We used to have a couple of games that I remember where I worked. I think we had a Scrabble game, Monopoly. Has anybody played any board games that have been specifically made accessible? Or has anybody modified a board game that they're playing with their family so that they can join in?

Elyse H: That's a great point. I was just going to say, I've seen a Monopoly that contains extra-large playing cards. Some with braille and even some with both braille and large print. And then there was an overlay in that game board to help identify the properties and various spaces.

Steve K: Was that like a sheet or something that you just put over the board? Do you know how that worked?

Elyse H: Yeah. It was a clear plastic overlay that could go on a regular out of the box game board, that would help you identify the properties and the spaces with the perimeter of each space was labeled in braille, the tactile marking.

Steve K: You know in most cases, I think it just takes a little creativity like Carol was talking about, to modify some of these things so that now everyone can join in.

Elyse H: Exactly. I see we have someone joining by phone. Their number starts 210. Did you have a comment for the group?

Brenda: Hi, my name is Brenda. I'm calling from San Antonio, Texas. My son has a young family, children. And the only game that I've really been able to play with them is Phase 10. It doesn't require any modification other than a very high degree of trust all the way around the table. But we've had a lot of fun with that one. And it's a dice game. The dice Phase 10.

Elyse H: Okay.

Steve K: And what modifications, Brenda, did you make or were none necessary?

Brenda: No. None were necessary. I just had to be able to trust everybody around the table. So I would pit them all each other to keep them all truthful.

Elyse H: And then were they calling out what was on the dice as they would roll it?

Brenda: Yes. As a matter of fact, we got into the pattern of each time a player played, they would roll the dice and they would name off the different numbers that were on the dice, or the wild card. And that's just part of our play. We go around and everybody identifies their card, they put them together, tell what they're rolling. It's very verbal.

Steve K: Wow.

Elyse H: That's really neat. And you can share that with the grandkids, too.

Brenda: Exactly.

Steve K: Elyse, did I see in one of your links that there was a little software or something or other than you can put on the computer that kind of you would hit it and it would roll the dice and then read off the numbers? I'm pretty sure I saw something like that. Of course I can't remember the name of the company, but it was a free piece of software. And it sounds like Brenda you can trust the folks that you're playing with. But I'm just thinking, if you were ever in a situation where that was questionable, you might want to switch over to this software.

Elyse H: You're right, Steve. The company is called GMA. Like G as in good, M as in man, A like apple. And they have an advanced dice rolling program. Even has accurate dice rolling sounds and 12 different dice rolls type presets. So you can sort and review up to 12. If you had 12 in your hand or depending on your game, you can re-roll one or more in a multi dice roll format. So like Steve said, if you can't quite trust the people at the table or if you want a different way you can put it on the computer with GMA dice rolling. And I believe that one is free. It's also self-voicing, so you don't have to have a screen reader installed or running in order to utilize it. And then my other, I saw some dice that are marked with tactile raised dots. And there's a pair of two plastic dice that are a little bit larger. They stand almost an inch tall with contrasting black raised dots to see on the white square. And they're $3 for two of them. So again, depending on how many you need for your game, if you want to do tactile dice, we'll add that in our links to the braillebookstore.com for tactile marked dice.

Steve K: You know what I love about that one, and I remember seeing that too is that, you can put those tactile dice in any game with anyone. And I'm guessing that the dots that you can feel, you could probably also see as well. So it's a little bit more inclusive.

Elyse H: For sure. You can take it from game to game or even just keep a set with you and when a game of Yahtzee breaks out, you'll be ready to join in.

Steve K: Well, you'll have to have some money for that. Aren't there six dice for Yahtzee or something like that?

Elyse H: Yes.

Steve K: That's three bucks a die. You're looking at 18 bucks, right?

Elyse H: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Going back to those giant games Cindy was talking about, the huge Uno cards and the giant Jenga, I also have a set of huge dice. They're big wooden blocks. Really nice wood contrast with black indented for each dot number. I guess I call them lawn dice and a little bit larger, we actually blow up a little kitty pool without the water just to coral them. So when you roll them, they don't go off the table and under the couch and that. So if you really want to spice up the party, we can bring these huge dice along to play dice games.

Steve K: Anyone else have a game that they have modified a little bit or purchased off the shelf that was particularly good to play with a family?

Elyse H: While they think about it, do you want to talk about some of those ones you found for electronic gaming?

Steve K: Yeah. I did a little bit of a search because I thought with the Amazon Echo and the Google Home Assistant, the smart devices, they're always talking about games. And try as I might I could not find a conventional card game or board game that you could play. But one of the things on the Amazon Echo was, I started playing this game, which is supposed to be kind of a popular game. It's called Escape the Room. At first it was a little bit frustrating because I didn't have a whole lot of information. It's basically you show up in a room, it describes what's in the room, and then you can tell the device which portion of the room that you want to go to. Do you want to go the door of the back of the room or the window or something like that? And when you get there you would get a clue. And I went to all the different parts of the room to get a clue, but I couldn't escape from the room. And somehow or another I probably said something in exasperation, but I found out that oh, you can ask for a hint. So once I asked for a hint, I got a little bit of a hint and I was able to go back to that portion of the room and get to the next level.

But you know what I loved about it? Escape the Room wasn't the only one. There's another one called Magic Room. But these are all audio games and I got to tell you, from the challenge that I had with Escape the Room, I could have been there for hours playing this game. It was really a lot of fun. Now the Google Home Assistant also has games. And let's see, I'm trying to find ... The one that I started to play there was something called Castle Master. Now some of the other games, I wasn't as intrigued with, but Castle Master kind of added a little bit of strategy to the game. So you're given these questions like the people in your domain have come to you. Like one of the questions for example was somebody was caught speeding on their horse on the roadway.

Elyse H: Oh dear.

Steve K: You were being asked as the king whether or not you wanted to fine that person for speeding. You could say yes or no and based on your response of course, your popularity would increase or decrease and the amount of money in your coffers would increase or decrease. Again, it was actually kind of compelling. I realized I could kill hours playing a game like that. So I found that those were kind of fun. I'm just kind of curious, has anybody explored any of the games that are available on the smart speakers?

Elyse H: And Steve, I'm curious, did you have to create a log in or a user account of sorts?

Steve K: No you really didn't. With both of the devices if you just start out by ... Of course you've got the device connected in your house. You might start out by saying, "What games can I play?" And in both cases each one of them kind of offered you two or three games and asked if you wanted to try one of those or one of the options was more. So at least with the Amazon Echo, I probably had to go through four or five series of games before I found one that was interesting. But the Amazon Echo had things like Jeopardy. It was a little bit overwhelming. There were an awful lot of games that could be played. I just had no idea until I started looking.

Elyse H: Well, that's really neat. I see we have a hand up. Let's go to Cindy, you're un-muted.

Cindy: Yes. I was just going to mention on the Amazon Echo that the Jeopardy skill is a lot of fun. It doesn't give you ... Like if you're watching the TV show and there's lots of rounds. But the way it works on this device is just a few questions or answers or whatever each day. It's just a quick little thing that you can have loaded on there and test your skills. And I enjoy it a lot.

Steve K: Now, I have to ask, did you get sucked into it for an extended period of time? I could see a substantial part of the afternoon could be killed with one of these things.

Cindy: The way mine was offered, it's only a few answers per day that it gives you and then your time is up. And so it's not like a full round of jeopardy.

Steve K: Right. I like that. Kind of evens things out a little bit so you don't lose the whole afternoon.

Cindy: Right. But if you wait until Friday it'll let you catch up from the whole week and so you actually could sit down and enjoy a week's worth of the game. But otherwise you can just play a little bit each day.

Steve K: You know what's really amazing, the amount of entertainment value that has started to be packed into some of these smart speakers, both of them.

Elyse H: Yeah, that's really neat. I was playing around with searching and I found Blind Gamers has a website and has about 40 different games that you could play. Again, you didn't need a screen reader installed or running, because it has its own speech output. One of the ones I sat down and played was blind hang man. But I did find they had two options between their easy level and harder level. And some of the words on the easy level were hard. I would've-

Steve K: Were you playing on a computer or a tablet or how did that?

Elyse H: Yeah, I was on my computer, but you could put it on a tablet of sorts. You just hold down the control key and whichever letter you wanted to guess, and then you could use the arrow keys left and right to see where ... If the letter was in the word, what space was it? So it would say space, space, E, space, space, space.

Steve K: Did you have to turn a screen reader on or was it self-voicing?

Elyse H: It's self-voicing.

Steve K: Oh now that's cool.

Elyse H: Yeah. It has all keyboard commands to navigate through the menus. You can change the voice and you can change the level. Again, I thought the easy level was pretty difficult. All with a speech output and it's free. So you could just play and play until maybe you fell asleep.

Steve K: What was the URL or the web address on that again?

Elyse H: It's www.omninet, O-M-N-I-N-E-T.net. Backslash a whole bunch. It ends with blind gamers. Bling, B like boy, L-I-N-D like David, gamers. And we can for sure put this up if you wanted to search for any number of their games. They also have-

Steve K: We'll make sure that that gets in the show notes too. But I'm guessing that you could just type in a search, omninet blind gamers, and come up with that website.

Elyse H: I think so, yeah. They also have the Sudoku game that has speech output, Solitaire, Chess Challenge I didn't get into but I thought if anybody is into chess. They have the game Battleship and Cribbage that are all with speech output.

Steve K: You know, there was a ... I just got to do a quick plug because on Tech It Out back in March, Ricky did a whole discussion group, an hour-long discussion group on various electronic games and accessible games and that sort of thing. So that's already in the archives too if anybody wants to go and check that out. That was Tech It Out, back in March. It was a great episode.

Elyse H: Well that would be a great place to check too. I haven't seen that. Other people want to jump in and share what games they like or what they've found or maybe ones they don't like or ways that they play? Cindy, go ahead.

Cindy: I was actually tuning in to see if anybody had ... I may be jumping ahead on what you had on your agenda. But to see if anybody had games that are apps on the cellphone that work with VoiceOver because that's really what I've been searching for is some kind of game I could play on my cellphone.

Elyse H: Oh for sure. The thing that's in everybody's pockets almost 24/7, right? Some games on the cellphone.

Steve K: Well let's hope that somebody here can offer a suggestion. But in the meantime Cindy I do know that if you do go to that archive discussion group, I'm pretty sure that Ricky was talking about games that you could play with VoiceOver on the phone.

Cindy: That was March of this year?

Steve K: It was March of this year, yes exactly.

Cindy: Okay. Thank you.

Steve K: Your welcome. That would be a good place to start.

Elyse H: Oh we have some more hands up. I'll let you guys talk first. Oh let's see. Charles, go ahead please.

Charles: I don't know if you ... Well I suppose you've seen these checkers. The checkers are about 4 inches in diameter. They're black and gray or whatever color. The problem is that they've got the cloth board. The great big squares on the board. It's great for somebody who's physically impaired but wouldn't be so great for somebody that's blind. But I remember it's been probably a few years ago, playing on a wooden board, playing chess with people. And the little squares were raised.

Elyse H: Exactly. Yes. Some are raised and some are lowered.

Charles: Yeah. And that was ... I don't know where they got the game or even if you can find the game today. But I thought that was really neat.

Elyse H: Yeah. And you could use that chess board with raised and lowered boxes to use either for chess or checkers tactilely. Move each piece.

Charles: Somebody was talking about those giant Bingo cards, having to shuffle them. Sounds like that'd be something that would really be good for a group training exercise. I used to work for this company, and they gave us this training exercise to try to work together as a team. They gave us these little pieces of string about 12 inches long. And a piece of string that's 12 inches long, you can't do a whole lot with it. But we decided to tie them together and we had about 12 people there, so we ended up with a string that's about 12 feet long. And then we were able to move things and do things with that 12-foot string that we couldn't do with our 12-inch string.

Elyse H: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Charles: That's the sort of game that we played.

Elyse H: That's a great idea. Like a team builder activity.

Charles: Yeah, yeah. I'll let you go.

Elyse H: Thanks for joining us, Charles.

Steve K: Thanks Charles. Yeah.

Elyse H: Barb, I see your hand is raised. Go ahead.

Barb: In regards to Carol's question about games that you can play on your phone. There is an app and I believe it's called Blindfold. B-L-I-N-D-F-O-L-D. Which has games and yes, they can be used with voiceover. I believe there's several different games inside that app that you can play.

Elyse H: I've heard of that. Do you have a favorite one that you play under Blindfold?

Barb: No. I haven't been over there in a while. I know I downloaded it and then got busy doing something else. I really haven't gone and explored too much in it yet.

Elyse H: Okay. Okay. And I'll piggyback with you Barb. I was going to tell Cindy about AppleVis, A-P-P-L-E-V-I-S. As a great website that different blind and low vision users have reviewed and given their two cents about some Apple products or related applications. And so-

Barb: Yes. That's where I found out about it.

Elyse H: Oh okay, okay. So you found out Blindfold.

Barb: Yeah.

Elyse H: If you're interested to see, well does this game work well with a screen reader, would this work well with a magnifier, some people have taken the time and gone through to give a review and then you can get recommendations and see information there about different games that you could do on a cellphone or a tablet. Great suggestion, Barb. We'll be sure to add that Blindfold to our notes.

Barb: You're welcome.

Steve K: Everyone have a great evening.