Using Braille at Home

Hadley Learner Annely Rose will present on the many ways braille can be used in and around the home.

October 24, 2019

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Audio Transcript


Embracing Braille – Using Braille at Home

Presented by Vileen Shah

October 24, 2019

Vileen S: I welcome you all to Embracing Braille Group. Today we have a presenter and her name is Annely Rose. She's one of your participants as well, and it's a spotlight that we talked about, which means that when a participant makes presentation, then we call it a spotlight.

So, Annely Rose will explain to her what's her experience with learning braille, and how she's using. And that's better than what I tell, because she's your participant, so over to Annely Rose. Welcome.

Annely R: Hello everybody, and I have been asked to speak, and you all know it, using braille in the home, but let me give you a little background on my braille learning. My first exposure to, really exposure to braille was at summer camp, although I did go to school with vision impaired students starting in the first grade, but not in a class with braille users. They had us divided, I guess we had so many kids, that we had a class for the partial sighted, and a class for the totally blind. But my first real exposure was at summer camp, and I was eight years old at the time, and we had some free time, and we had some braille books there at the camp, and some Braillers.

We had, and I'm trying to remember which Braillers we had. I know we had both types, the Hall Brailler, and the Perkins Brailler, but the kids taught me the alphabet, and I learned it just by writing it over and over, and repeating it verbally over and over with the dot combinations, and then it just went back on the shelf for a couple of years, until I started learning all of the braille in fifth grade, and my teachers were smart, because I was developing cataracts, and so they decided to teach me braille before I needed it, so by the time I did need it, then I knew everything.

I think I knew everything, but writing it wasn't so bad, but reading it was a challenge, as it is, I'm sure it was with most of you, figuring out where those dots go, and which are in the same cell, and which are in adjacent cells. But I got it done, and then I used braille in school for reading textbooks and doing homework, reading braille magazines, and braille books. And that was throughout school, and even in college. That was before the closed-circuit TVs came out. I still had some partial sight back then. I would tell people I saw enough to get myself into trouble, because you think you can see things when you really can't.

So then the closed-circuit TVs came out, and I was doing a lot of stuff with the closed-circuit TVs, although I wasn't reading textbooks with them. It took too long, even with the CCTV to read. And of course, braille books were not available for college classes. I remember, before the CCTVs came out, I developed an address book with index cards, and had it in braille, and then when I got my own CCTV, I switched from braille to print, and used printing on the index cards, and now I'm back to using braille because I'm totally blind now.

But through college I did my homework in braille, I did my class notes in braille. I got really good with a slate and stylus, and using, we called it typing paper back then. Now they call it printer paper. But, when I did research papers, I wrote them all out in braille first, and then typed them up, and so it took longer, but I got it done.

But using braille in the home, fast tracking after college, I got married and had a child, and he had storybooks, and so I couldn't see the print, and to sit it in front of a closed-circuit TV and read to your child just wasn't going to do it. So I brailled out, using the CCTV, I brailled out the print material, and had it in Braille. And of course my braille reading was still slow, so I didn't do too many books. My braille reading was too slow to read to him.

But I'm using braille for lots of things in the home, for reading recipes, reading books and magazines, although I prefer talking books, because I can put them on and read myself to sleep. But I do read braille. I read braille magazines, and I must say that the Hadley Spring into Braille Reading got me going with reading more braille again.

I start collecting materials at the beginning of the year, so I have plenty of braille material to read for Spring into Braille. But I also use the braille for, as I said, recipes. My address book, which is the index card file. I have labeled most of my CDs with braille. Some of them I have braille labels on the outside, and the ones I haven't put on the outside, I took little scraps of braille paper and wrote it and stuck it on the inside of the case. Let me think, what else do I do? I label things in the kitchen. If I have boxes of muffing mix, or cake mix, I will braille the information, how much oil, or eggs, or water, or whatever goes in it.

I keep it short, don't need to braille a lot, and then put the oven temperature, and the amount of time for baking. And I can do this with another device that I have, the i.d. mate, which is a barcode reader, and I will, with that I'll read the information and put it on either an index card, something small that I can wrap around the box, or hold on the box with a rubber band.

I play games, I have two Scrabble games. One that, that one must be, I want to say at least 50 years old, and it's been around for a while, and it has wear and tear, plus I have a Monopoly game as well, in braille. I have a newer Braille Scrabble game that I won though the Spring into Braille Reading, and play card games, play Uno, play Rummy, I'm trying to think. It's been a while since I've played any card games. My card players aren't close by.

I keep notes for work. I work with clients, so I need their information, their names, addresses, phone numbers, and some background information, so all of that is in braille. I do meeting notes in braille. I do, when I do presentations. As a matter of fact, right now I have this presentation, an outline in braille that I'm kind of following. When I go to conferences, I'm always asking for the agendas in braille, so that it's literally at my fingertips.

Sometimes it's a challenge finding the day and time of an activity, but the format is laid out so it's easy to find. And for those of you who have taken Everyday Reading in UEB, you know about the formats and indentations, and it makes it a little easier when scanning down the left margin of the page, to find the beginning of sections. And it's nice to have the agendas in braille, because if I get bored in a presentation or a meeting, I can pull the agenda out, and read it, and nobody knows that I'm reading material, because it's in my lap, and not in my face.

And what else do I braille? Calendar, I will weekly write out activities that I have planned for that week. Also at home, and at work, I label files, the file folders, I put the braille on the back side, and it's well, upside down, so that when I read, I just have to stick my fingers on the back of the tab, and I can read the braille. Same thing with my index card file that I have with the addresses. The braille is on the back side of the card, and so I just have to stick my hand in here and read it.

When I get my mail, I scan it with my Kurzweil, and then I label everything in braille, so then I know what's what, whether it's a bill or a document, or I'm trying to think what else I get in the mail. Oh, and the insurance, explanations of benefits. If I get papers from the doctor's office, I'll scan them and braille them, label them with braille. Sometimes I put it at the top of the page, sometimes I put it at the bottom, and so it just depends on how easy it is to put in the Brailler.

I also have braille clothing tags and have tagged some of my clothes. I need to do more, because I like to sew them in instead of, some people pin their braille tags into their clothes, but I like to sew them in, and so the pins aren't in the way. And that's pretty much what I do with my braille.

Vileen S: Do you label spices?

Annely R: Yes. I label spices. Although I have to do them again, because the DYMO tape that I used didn't stick, and they've all fell off. So, I'm going to be moving on my own. Right now I live with family, so I can't cover up the labels with pieces of braille paper and a rubber band, but that's the way I prefer to do them, and I call those transferrable labels, and that way I can transfer them from one container to another, and when I move in on my own, I'm going to label all my spices with a braille label and a rubber band that I can remove, and anybody comes over and wants to use anything, oh well.

I saw yesterday, I got an email from National Braille Press, that they are making labels, and it sounds like they're on, like those plastic wristbands that you get. They've got them with different lines, with vegetables, and meats, and I'm not sure what else. If I remember correctly, there's six to a set, and it's $18 for each set. A little steep, I think my index cards and rubber bands are going to be a little bit cheaper. Although these are plastic, and they can go in the freezer. But I may invest in a set to see how they are, but I happened to see that yesterday.

I haven't labeled things in the freezer yet, but that's probably something I will do in the future. But I know that braille is important, and I love reading signs that are in braille. Where was I the other day? Some place. Oh, I know, it was at work. We have a sign on our door, and they wrote out, "Welcome" in braille, and I noticed an error, for the O they made an N out of it. So I pointed that out, so now I get the job of making new labels. But I love braille. It's so important to have it. It's frustrating, because I know we all want to read it faster, but it takes time, and it's so important, the spacing and the alignment, and it makes a big difference. And, I'm done.

Vileen S: Okay, thank you so much, Annely. Great presentation. I'm pretty certain many beginner learners particularly, learned a lot from what you say, and it's also quite informative for many people who have been using braille for long time. Even I got some information that may be useful for me, using your rubber band and braille card. I am doing differently, but everybody has to do it according to his, her need, and ability. So customize your needs, and find out a way that helps you, particularly when it comes to labeling things. I'll leave this question answer session open very soon.

Okay, here's the announcement from National Braille Press. And for those who may not know enough, the National Braille Press is one of the leading Braille production house. It produces books in braille and sells them at a very affordable, reasonable price. Especially most books are sold at the price of a print book. And remember, a braille book costs a lot more to prepare than a print book. But they just want to ensure equality, that the blind people also have access to the information, much as the sighted people have, and within the same price. So that's the great thing that National Braille Press has been doing.

So here is an announcement from them, of the third Annual Braille Poetry Contest is open. The theme for this year's contest is freedom. Freedom to be you, freedom in the world, fighting for freedom, let your creativity run free. We'll be accepting submissions from October 11, 2019, to February 7th, 2020. The winners will be announced on World Poetry Day, March 21, 2020. And then it says, "Click here for details." So anybody who's interested can send me an email, and I'll send this email to you, so that you can click and get more details, how you can participate and everything else.

Elyse H: Vileen, this is Elyse, just to let everybody know about the contest, the poem that you write must be an original work, and they're asking for 125 words or less. You can use English Braille American Edition, or Unified English Braille, or UEB. So either is acceptable, but under 125 words.

Vileen S: Oh terrific, I'm glad you found those details. Ah, appreciate it.

Elyse H: Yes, I just wanted to add that, so people can start thinking about their poems, and we will send it over to Michelle.

Michelle: Sure, thank you so much for that great poem. Thanks for the presentation, just a quick question here. What [inaudible] preferred when you're working at the home for you? Working to, before you get ready to read, to write with your slate and stylus, or your braille writer, or another device in your home? Thank you. Over.

Vileen S: Oh that's great, it's a great question, yes. Annely?

Annely R: Yes, usually I use the Brailler, but sometimes, when I mail envelopes, braille letters in envelopes, I like to put, "From" and my name at the bottom of the envelope, and if it's a big envelope, and it doesn't fit in the Brailler, then I will use a slate and stylus, and also, and this is a challenge, I did it the other day. I forget what I was labeling, but I had to do it upside down and backwards, and I had to picture in my mind, how the letter looks right side up, and flipping it around and doing it backwards was... It was challenging, but I got it done.

Vileen S: Fantastic primary purpose, to have it done, no matter what, correct? Okay, very good.

Michelle: Thank you.

Elyse H: Thank you, yes, we have another hand up. Your phone number starts 573. Can you tell us your name please?

Rick: Yeah, Rick [inaudible] from Jefferson City.

Elyse H: Great, thank you. Go ahead, Rick.

Rick: First off, thank you Vileen, and thank you Annely, too. I just got the Everyday Reading in UEB course material a couple days ago. I'll be digging into that. Thank you.

Elyse H: Oh good.

Vileen S: Oh, welcome.

Rick: I do have a question though. Has anyone else noticed in the last few years, that DYMO tape just does not stick like it used to?

Annely R: Yes, I have noticed that.

Rick: And I'm not sure what to do about it.

Annely R: You also have to, whatever you put it on, make sure that the surface is clean. And now, I didn't do that so much on the spices. I probably should've done it more. And I have noticed that it doesn't stick. I've put it on CDs, and it falls off, and-

Rick: Yes. And audiobooks.

Annely R: Uh-huh. I've been using paper and taping things on with that. Especially the audiobooks, and well the CDs, I put the paper inside the case.

Vileen S: Yeah, I think that quality of products has been progressively going down and down, and DYMO tape is no exception unfortunately. So, I'm not sure what else to say, but I'm pretty certain there are other participants who will have something [inaudible] this, so we will take that, and see who else can tell. So please raise your hand if you have anything to say about this question.

Annely R: I was going to say that I have also in the past used laminating sheets that I bought at Walmart. I haven't bought them in a while, but, those I use, especially to label CDs, and I would do a whole sheet, and then cut them into pieces, and stick them on, and I did that like, oh I want to say nine years ago or so, and they're still on there, whereas the DYMO tape has come off.

Vileen S: Oh, great. Okay. And we have three participants, so let's hear them one by one.

Elyse H: Great. This person's number starts 603, can you tell us your name please?

Jody: Hi, it's Jody from New Hampshire. Hi, Annely and Vileen.

Annely R: Hey.

Jody: And I was going to suggest the laminating plastic, but you just did. Also, you can get plastic index cards, and those are a lot more durable, and so all of my bus schedules and that sort of thing, on the plastic, rather than the cardboard, because then it doesn't flatten out. But I had a story I wanted to relay. Last week we had a really bad storm here, and our power went out for a day and half, and my book player was dead.

Vileen S: Which state do you live in? Sorry.

Jody: In New Hampshire.

Vileen S: Okay, great.

Jody: We had a nor'easter come in, it was very strong winds. But my book player was dead, and of course I didn't want to use my phone, because I didn't want to use up the battery, and I couldn't go out because it was raining, but I had a braille book, and if it wasn't for that braille book, I would've just gone stir crazy because there was nothing else to do except play with the dog, and take a nap. So I just wanted to relay that. I'm so glad I completed the Braille Literacy Four class last year, and I practiced my speed by reading books that I borrowed from the Perkins Library, and if I didn't have that book, I just would've not had anything to do that day. So I just wanted to relay that. But I do use the laminating plastic, which I like, and those plastic braille index cards, or, plastic index cards.

Annely R: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Vileen S: Great [crosstalk].

Annely R: They'll work in the freezer, too, the plastic.

Jody: Yeah, so they will work in the freezer. I do have, I have a box of DYMO tape that I bought years and years ago, and it's still the old sticky stuff, so I'm glad I've got the old tape, because I hadn't heard about the new tape not sticking. But I do, I have, I buy my spices in large containers, and I'll braille the lid of the container, and then when I buy a new one, I just take the lid off the old container and put it on the new container.

Vileen S: Oh, a good thing. Wow. See how much we can learn from each other. Great, okay. Carry on, carry on.

Jody: Well thank you.

Vileen S: Thank you.

Elyse H: Thanks Jody. We'll go to Irene, you're next in line.

Irene: I want to comment on the DYMO tape using. What I do, on things that are flat surfaced, is I take my fingernails, which I allow to be a little bit longer than normal, and take my fingernail, and just go around, and around, and around it, until it gets as flat as possible. But I know that it still sometimes comes off, more because, on my old braille light, the on button, which I had, on the side of it, I had marked on the machine, which side it was so I could get it on and off, and that is still says on, no matter that it has been in for repair about three times, and it still says, "On" on the on button, and the other I have to replace more often.

Annely R: Wow.

Vileen S: Yeah.

Irene: But that's what I do for flat things, and it seems to stay on longer. It doesn't work in the freezer though.

Vileen S: And that helps you. Okay, good. That, Annely, you had something?

Irene: Were you saying to me?

Vileen S: Annely, yeah. Do you have anything to comment on this?

Annely R: No, that's great. Yeah the DYMO tape, because it's in a roll, I think it works better on round, like spice bottles, but I don't encourage making them, or sticking them directly onto the spice bottle, because then, once the spice is used up, then it's no good. But putting it onto, you can put the DYMO label onto an index card, or, I know there are, there's a labeling system out there, I haven't bought it. Where you get the plastic strips, and then you get the elastic, I think the strips have a hole at either end, so you can attach these pieces of elastic to them and put them on whatever. I haven't invested in that system. I try to make my own because I'm too darn cheap.

Vileen S: Actually, I use DYMO tape and put the labels at the bottom of bottles, so that it doesn't cover the print labels. There are different ways of course. Okay.

Annely R: Yeah.

Vileen S: Yeah, at the bottom. Okay, next one?

Elyse H: Great, we have another caller, your number starts 734. You tell us your name please?

Alison: Yes, this is Alison from Michigan.

Vileen S: Oh, hi Alison.

Alison: Hi Vileen.

Vileen S: Yeah, yeah.

Alison: Would've suggested how I was taught to label things, you can also thread you DYMO tape through the slate and stylus and label things that way, and on round cans with the index cards, you can take a little handheld hole puncher, and punch a hole in the corner of the index card, and then thread a rubber band through it once you're done putting the label on the index card, and then put it on the round container that way.

Annely R: True. And you can also do that with plastic labels, because they'll hold up if you're going to punch a hole and thread the rubber band through there. The plastic lasts longer than the paper would. And yes, I don't use a DYMO labeler. I put the DYMO tape through the slate and stylus. Or not stylus, but through the slate, yeah. And then make my own labels. But if you're buying, for those who are going to purchase a slate, I notice that, and I recommended this years ago, to MaxiAids, when they give a description in their catalogs for the slate, they don't include that extra slot for DYMO tape, and I had told them that years ago, that. And one girl I spoke to, because it didn't have it in the description, so I called, and she said, "You know, I never noticed that extra slot at either end of the second row." But I haven't noticed that anyone has put that in their description, so, if you're going to buy a slate, I would buy one that has that extra slot so you can make DYMO labels with it. Over.

Vileen S: Oh great, and using the regular slate and stylus, I am making labels using a DYMO tape, really makes you smart. You have to be really smart to do that. It's not easy to have a DYMO tape between the two parts of the screen, and then write Braille on that. It's doable. I'm not in any way discrediting. It's doable, but you just have to be smart, of how the tape [crosstalk] the two parts. Yes? Go ahead.

Annely R: Right, you have to, when you thread the DYMO tape, you have to start at the slot that's closest to the hinge, with the end of your tape, and then bring it over to the other end of the slate, so that you can pull it through, and cut off what you need to cut off, and make the next label. But I would recommend, if you're going to make more than one label, just move over a space or two between the words, and then do the whole line, and then pull it through and cut it off into the pieces you want. But don't do one, and then pull it through and cut, and then thread it again. Over.

Vileen S: Yes, being more practical. Yes, perfect. Okay, great. Let's take next question.

Elyse H: Okay, Cheyenne, you're next in line.

Cheyenne: Okay, can you hear me?

Elyse H: Yes.

Vileen S: Yes, yes.

Cheyenne: Okay, great. Okay, awesome. Okay, first thing is that the Braille Superstore, which I quote them often in this discussion, because I buy from them very frequently, they do have a slate that is specifically designed for DYMO tape use. It's a one-line slate, and I don't remember how much it costs, but they do have it there. Secondly, I've never tried this on DYMO tape, per se, for the sticking, but I have tried it with other adhesive surfaces. What I do, is I dampen my fingers a little bit with water, and then I gently press it, my fingers on the tape, to make it a little more stickier. So, you couldn't do this with an entire roll of DYMO tape, but you could do it for a piece, once you've got the label made. It's something to try, anyways. So, over.

Vileen S: Okay.

Annely R: This is Annely. Now I've seen the single line slate; the hinges are at the top. But the one I have, that's at my work, I haven't bought one, but it doesn't have anything to hold the tape in place, and you just have to make sure that it stays in place. But then, why buy an extra slate if the regular slate has the two slots, and plus, not only the extra expense, but then it's you've got one more thing to keep up with. Over.

Vileen S: Great, okay. Next question, or comment?

Elyse H: Okay, Rick, you're next in line.

Rick: Thank you. Yeah, I use a regular slate to do my [inaudible] labels, and it has those slots on the third row. But to keep from wasting tape, I will thread it in there, so that the far end of the tape is just barely peeking out past the second slot, and then write my label backward. It takes a little keeping track of things, but, and I'll even start with the second last character, and then write it backward, and when I get to the end of the line, I'll, by hand, pull the tape, so that it's queued to the next cell, which means then I can fill in that last character. So it's kind of awkward, but it does save tape. Over.

Vileen S: Nice, [inaudible] I like that. It's being smart. You must be able to go backward. It's interesting.

Okay, very good. I'm not too sure how it all works, but if you are doing it successfully Rich, then that's just great. We will take the next question or comment.

Elyse H: Okay, Donald, you're next in line.

Donald: Hello.

Vileen S: Hello.

Donald: I just wanted to, I pushed star nine before the comment was made about the one-line slate. That was what I was going to say, that Braille Press had a one-line slate in 1967 when I got it, and it has two sections, I mean it had a top and a bottom. You put the tape in on the bottom, close the top over the bottom, and that holds the tape in the slate, and then you Braille it, and that was very helpful when I started labeling stuff.

Vileen S: Yeah, great. That's a great input, yeah.

Elyse H: Thank you, Donald. Darrin, you're next in line.

Darrin: I just wanted to touch on a couple of different things. The one-line slate, is a little bit different than some of the others, that the hinges are actually on the bottom, so that you can actually, as opposed to the left side, or to the right side of the slate, you have to open it up, put the tape in, and hopefully you can close it and make it happen. It's like a hotdog, you can go ahead and open it up towards you, you put the DYMO tape or whatever you want into it, and then you close it. So you've got 25 cells that you can work with at a time, one line only. So you don't have to worry about doing it in the right spot of the slate or not. And interestingly enough, it's on sale right now for $6.95 at the Superstore, so, thanks for that piece of information as well.

One of the things that's really difficult, especially to label things, not only is to get the DYMO tape to stick, but Irene mentioned, where do you put the labels on things? And what I learned, that works fairly well, is that especially with medicine bottles is that you can go ahead, and you can actually put a label on the lid. So if I'm going to label ibuprofen, so I know which one it is, as opposed to something else, then once I get another bottle, then all I have to do is swap the caps. I don't have to worry about having the label on the bottle itself or covering up different things that way.

And then another thing is that, don't overthink this. Low tech is just fine. If you can punch it with a slate and stylus, or with a braille writer, either way, you can put it on there, and if you use it once, or you can use it a couple times, as long as that you use it, that's the important piece of it. Yes, I do believe it does smell like cinnamon, but you sure it's not chili powder? You know? There is a difference there. Which I learned along the way, too. So, this is great to be able to share some of these tips and ideas. I think this is what makes this group fun, is that we all get to learn from everyone else. So, over.

Vileen S: Yeah, exactly.

Annely R: And there are also labels out there, there's a company called Specialty Labels, but I think, I want to say MaxiAids, or I forget which place has them-

Vileen S: Maybe Superstore.

Annely R: Sells them in smaller quantities. Yeah, they have... The Braille Superstore. Okay. I can't keep up with, because sometimes they change their inventory from time to time. But you can buy the labels, and I'm not sure if they come in a roll. I know if you got them in a large quantity it's in, and the Specialty Labels sells them in like 1,000 at a time, which is a lot of labels. But these are ones that you can Braille on and just peel and stick them on to whatever, and if you throw it out, if it's empty and you throw it out, you make another one and stick it on. I know a friend of mine, I noticed their two-liter soda bottles had these labels on them, and I made the comment about, "Well what happens when you finish the soda?" He said, "Oh we just throw it away with the label." And I said, "Yeah, but that's a lot of work." And he said, "No, it's not too bad." So it's personal preference.

Vileen S: It's personal preference, that's the bottom line. Yes. Okay, I think we still have two hands raised, so let's move on.

Elyse H: We sure do. Darrin, you're next in line.

Vileen S: And by the way, Darrin, I never saw that slate that opens at the back, you said. That's interesting.

Darrin: It is interesting, and the fact that, because that's always the problem is trying to figure out, how do you put it into the slate, and then so it'll stay, you know? That's the important piece. I wanted to-

Annely R: Yeah, you've got to-

Darrin: Wanted to mention as well-

Vileen S: Yeah how many lines are on there? I'm a little curious.

Darrin: Yeah, well for seven bucks, and I believe it comes with the stylus as well. And it's metal.

Vileen S: And how many lines are on it?

Annely R: It's just one line. It's just one line.

Darrin: One line, 25 cells.

Vileen S: Oh, got it, got it.

Annely R: Yeah, and the hinge runs along the length of the line, not at the end of the line.

Darrin: Right, and it snaps in very easily, and that holds in place. And then the other trick to it too is to make sure that you leave a cell before and after, or two, so that you have enough to be able to, not only to cut it, right? But then you can actually peel off the tape from there. And as far as having labels that won't stay stuck on a bottle, or on a CD case or something else like that, is that, one other tip is to be able to go in and either get small pieces of packing tape, or some really got scotch tape, whatever helps, that you can actually tape on either end, and then it'll hold for as long as it's there, unless it doesn't get too beat up. So that might be something you could take a look at as well. Over.

Vileen S: Great, great. Okay.

Elyse H: Okay, Kelly, you're next in line.

Kelly: Okay, I just had a couple of comments actually I wanted to make. One is that, with a slate and stylus, versus let's say what I like to call a labeling gun, one of those little DYMO labelers. I prefer the slate and stylus, in terms of flexibility as far as being able to write out the label, because with the labeling gun, as I like to call it, I mean sure you can, of course write out the label, but the dial doesn't have all the contractions for braille.

I mean I know it's got the basics, but it doesn't have things like dots four, five, six, or dots four, five, or anything like that, so if you wanted to make your own contractions, your out of luck, in that regard. So that's why I like the slate and stylus method or using a Perkins Brailler. Although for labeling I would use the slate, because then I can write it out my way.

The other thing that I do, is I have some eyedrops that I have to put in on my eyes every so often, and what I've been doing with those, and some other medications, so that I have... And other products as well, I guess, is instead of using DYMO tape, what I've done is I'll have my, let's say the eyedrops, all in a Ziploc bag, and then I just put an index card with a braille label basically saying what's in that bag, so then I can just look it up that way.

Vileen S: Wow. It's a brilliant idea.

Annely R: Yeah.

Vileen S: I'm pretty sure it's useful for many people. Yes, Annely?

Annely R: Yeah, I was going to say that there is magnetic tape out there that you can make your DYMO label and stick it to the magnetic tape, and then stick it to the lid of a can, and it usually holds. There's some magnetic tape that you can, I think, actually braille on it, but I've never done that. And there was a magnetic tape that Susan Fisher had offered it to the braille students if they requested it from her, but I don't find that as strong as what was out there earlier, and I have a piece here, I haven't worked with it, but I think it's narrow enough where it will fit into a slate, and you can actually braille on it. It's thinner. The other magnetic tape is thicker. You know, while I'm on the phone I'm going to try that but go ahead.

Vileen S: Okay. Next one?

Elyse H: Okay, I think that was Kelly, so we have some open time. A couple minutes left if anybody else would like to comment. This is Elyse, I'll add in, for some of that DYMO tape, if it's not sticking, depending on what bottle or what the outside is, if you're able to use a little bit of glue, and I used to use a glue stick, and add some, just a very thin layer of glue on to it, and then stick it onto either the box, or the bottle, with a little bend in it. It seemed to work. Or like a CD case might work. But making sure that it's your item, not necessarily a borrowed item, if you're going to be gluing it on, and having to return, like a talking book.

Annely R: And I just checked out this magnetic tape, and it is narrow enough where it does fit through those slots at the end of the row on the slate and stylus. As a matter of fact I'm threading it through right now, and I'll have to make some braille labels with it. You've got me inspired now.

Vileen S: Interesting. Okay. All right friends, so first of all thank you so much for actively participating, and question-answer session is our next session, open to all, and next Thursday is Halloween day. So feel free to bring your ghost. I'll [crosstalk]. That's just [inaudible], are you asking a question, or your ghost is asking?

And one last declaration I would like to make, that Annely did a great, great presentation, thank you so much. Okay, so I wish you all a good week ahead, and good weekend. Once again, thank you so much for joining, and let's see you all next Thursday. Bye now.